|
(Speaker Continuing)
[Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett:   ] They sabotaged democracy. This is-----
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I call Deputy Catherine Murphy, the proposer.
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: We are not putting up with this. These people want to wreck democracy. They want to silence these voices in one go. We are not putting up with it. I am sorry, but they want to disrupt democracy but we are not going to let them.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I call Deputy Catherine Murphy to make a point of order.
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: You want to be in government and in opposition.
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: The Deputy-----
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: You want to have your cake and eat it.
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: Rural Ireland.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I call Deputy Catherine Murphy on a point of order.
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: Rural Ireland.
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Silence is complicity in this.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: It is shocking.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: -----was independent. They are our representatives.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputies should please stop interrupting. Deputy Boyd Barrett should please sit down.
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: I will not sit down, with all due respect to you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: With respect-----
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: The Government wants to sabotage democracy.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I call Deputy Catherine Murphy.
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: You will-----
Deputy Michael Ring: Members should show respect for the Chair.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Could Members allow the Leas-Cheann Comhairle to speak? Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett should please listen. A number of people are indicating they wish to make a point of order. Could Members please let me speak? It is very late and we are tired. Deputy Boyd Barrett has made his point of order. Deputy Catherine Murphy is on her feet and Members should please let her speak.
Deputy Catherine Murphy: I reiterate the point that there was no objection to this at the Business Committee. We are going to go into the autumn session and we will have a whole lot of different arrangements on which we will have to have good agreement between the parties. Essentially, Members will start in September with an outrageous proposal that changes-----
Deputy Eoghan Murphy: That is not a point of order.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Members should please let the Deputy speak.
Deputy Catherine Murphy: -----the way the rota is taken, which has not been changed since the 1920s.
Deputy Charles Flanagan: That is not a point of order.
Deputy Catherine Murphy: This is absolutely outrageous. The Tánaiste said today that they were reintroducing democracy. The first proposal to reintroduce democracy is to deny a debate on something that is about the nature of our democracy. This is not about stopping speaking time; this is about how the speaking time is organised. That is what it is about.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: It is interesting that the people who are advocating stronger democracy will not even allow the Speaker of the House to keep order here.
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: I am letting rip.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: They should realise they are in the national Parliament. It is not someplace where one can just stand up and shout at people.
Deputy Danny Healy-Rae: We are representing rural Ireland.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: These proposals were agreed by the Dáil reform committee yesterday. Could I also call out the blatant lies that have been coming out of certain quarters in this House today, saying that their speaking time is being cut-----
Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: That is unparliamentary.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: It is not.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: It is.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: -----but the same people want to deny up to 50 Government Deputies-----
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: That is not a point of order.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: -----five seven-minute slots in three and a half hours. That is what this is about. They should be ashamed of themselves. It is a disgrace. They are an absolute disgrace.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Brendan Griffin: They are the ones who are trying to gag fellow Deputies. We were all elected here by the people of our constituencies. We are entitled to have our speaking time on behalf of the people who elected us. I will not take any lectures from the Opposition. It does not have a monopoly on moral authority in here. All of us have our mandates. All of us are elected by the people of our constituencies and we will not be denied our right to speak on behalf of the people that we represent.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I allowed Deputy Griffin in on a point of order. That was not a point of order. Please, let us have a little respect. Deputies should please resume their seats. We are going to have a little respect for the room of democracy. If Deputies want to make a point of order, I will hear them but please, let us have a little co-operation on all sides.
Deputy Thomas Pringle: On a point of order, the amendments that have been put on the Order Paper here today do not deny anybody the right to speak in this House. However, it has always been about the order of speaking. What the Government is proposing to do is to put all their speaking time first and to put everybody else after. That is the problem. That is the reason for the point of order.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: That is not true.
Deputy Thomas Pringle: There is not an attempt by anybody to deny any Member speaking time in this House. The attempt is by the Government to make sure that it gets all the speaking time first so it can put across its message.
Deputy Brendan Griffin: The Opposition has 74% of the speaking time.
Deputy Thomas Pringle: That is all it is about; it is about denying the rights of Members who are as entitled to be here in this House and denying us the right to have our speaking time as an Opposition.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I thank Deputy Pringle.
Deputy Thomas Pringle: The Government controls the House and this is simply about it using its dominant position to control this House and to put its views across. That is what has happened. It is the first time in 70 or 80 years that this has happened. It is because the Government is frightened by the views that we can put across in this House.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I thank Deputy Pringle.
Deputy Thomas Pringle: That is the problem with the amendment.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: I believe this is a very reasonable proposal. It does not deny anyone speaking rights, but it is just about the sequence and where it comes in and where it goes out. Deputy Griffin accused some people here of spreading lies. I ask you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, to make him withdraw the word "lie". We have the heavy boot boys back again in Fine Gael. We had them between 1973 and 1977. Are they back again? Is Deputy Griffin from Kerry the new heavy gang? Is he the new bully who is going to bully us? They might silence us here but they will not silence the people out there who are outraged at what is going on in this House and at the shambolic Bill that was passed here this evening. It is an outrage. It is a reasonable proposal. It is not taking time from anybody; it only relates to the sequences of time and that should be respected.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I thank the Deputy. Deputy Mick Barry has had his hand up for a while.
Deputy Mick Barry: Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. To be clear on what is being proposed here, the Government is trying to push through without debate a major organisational change in the way in which this Dáil organises its business, namely, to change the order of speaking time in Dáil debates. The aim of it is to ensure that smaller left parties and groups and Independent groups have less prominence in those debates. Why do they want to do this? Just look at what has happened in this House over the course of the past three to four weeks. If it was not for the role-----
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: That is not a point of order.
Deputy Mick Barry: Could I speak without interruption, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputies should please stop interrupting.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: Could you clarify the rule, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle?
Deputy Mick Barry: If it was not for the role of precisely those smaller left groups and Independents over the past few weeks, the Government would not have been called to account in nearly as efficient a way as it was on the issue of the pay increases for the junior Ministers.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to just speak to the point of order.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: This is out of order.
Deputy Mick Barry: It would not have been called to account in nearly as effective a way on the issue of their scandalous attempt to try to deny the pandemic unemployment payment to unemployed people who are travelling. I will conclude on this point, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: We need consistency.
Deputy Mick Barry: This Government has been a shambles over the past few weeks.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Mick Barry: It has been a shambles-----
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please Deputy.
Deputy Mick Barry: I will conclude on this point, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. The Government has made a shambles-----
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Barry should please make his point of order.
Deputy Mick Barry: The Government has been a shambles on the pay increase for the junior Ministers.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy please.
Deputy Mick Barry: The Government has been a shambles on the attacks on people who avail of the pandemic unemployment payment, and it is a shambles here tonight.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Barry should please take his seat.
Deputy Mick Barry: It is not going to get away with it.
|
Page
of 160
