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Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill, 2002 [ Seanad ] : Committee and Remaining Stages.

Wednesday, 18 December 2002

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 559 No. 6

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An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I understand section 1 is opposed.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen On a point of order, there are 100,000 people on the housing waiting list. House prices have doubled in recent years.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison That is not a point of order. What is the point of order?

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen This is a very important Bill affecting people's prospects of getting housing—

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen You did this deliberately.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison That matter was decided this morning. I call Deputy Gilmore on a point of order.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen We have nine minutes to discuss a detailed—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison That matter was decided this morning on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Gilmore.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen May I finish my point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison No, Deputy, because it is not a point of order.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen The Government is jackbooting legislation through this House in a Fascist manner—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison You are challenging a decision of this House this morning, Deputy. I call Deputy Gilmore.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen —when people are crying out for houses, and we will not stand for it. We now have nine minutes to discuss a detailed—

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen It is the Deputy's own fault.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Minister, please allow Deputy Gilmore to make his point of order.

Mr. Allen: Information on Bernard Allen Zoom on Bernard Allen This is jackboot tactics on the part of the Government. I said the other day this was a right wing Government. This is being done in a Fascist way.

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen Left of centre.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Allen, I ask you to resume your seat.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore This is a guillotined debate.

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen The Deputy's side of the House caused it, not me.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore Normally when Committee, Report and Final Stages of a Bill are being guillotined there is a proposal from the Government at the outset of the debate allocating the proportion of time which will be given to the respective Committee, Report and Final Stages. It is an utter farce to debate a Bill containing 20 sections, [1425]which has major implications for housing, in the six minutes remaining.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy, the decision was made by the House this morning.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore No. I have a valid point of order to make, a Cheann Comhairle. We are required constitutionally to examine Bills in this House Stage by Stage.

Mr. Howlin: Information on Brendan Howlin Zoom on Brendan Howlin Hear, hear.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore If we are to fulfil the constitutional function of this House, I want to know the Government's proposals given that we now have only five minutes in which to debate this Bill.

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen Caused by all the votes the Opposition called this morning.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore How will the Government allocate the time? Will we have two minutes for Committee Stage, one minute for Report Stage and one minute for Final Stage—

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen That is not my fault.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore —of a Bill which has serious implications for people in this country?

Mr. S. Ryan: Information on Seán Ryan Zoom on Seán Ryan This is another farce.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore The Government is treating this House with absolute contempt. It is railroading—

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I ask Members of the House to at least show respect to Deputy Gilmore and allow him make his point of order.

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg We are asking the Government to make time available now.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Stagg, I ask you to resume your seat. Your colleague is on his feet.

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg We would be prepared to sit tomorrow.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Stagg, resume your seat and allow your colleague make his point of order.

Mr. J. Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins On a point of order—

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore My point of order is this. I am elected to this House, as are other Members, primarily to examine legislation on behalf of the people. The Government, in its Executive function, has proposed legislation but it is acting as [1426]if it is the downtown office of the Construction Industry Federation—

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen That is an outrageous remark. It is unbecoming of the Deputy and his party.

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg That is the truth. They do not like the truth.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Gilmore, that is not a point of order. You are challenging a decision of the House this morning.

Mr. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan Zoom on Bernard Durkan On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle—

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen This is an absolute disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Sorry, Minister, I ask you to allow—

Mr. S. Ryan: Information on Seán Ryan Zoom on Seán Ryan This is another shambles.

Mr. Cullen: Information on Martin Cullen Zoom on Martin Cullen The Deputies are presiding over it.

A Deputy: Why will the Government not allow time for a debate?

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte On a point of order—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I call Deputy Cuffe. Deputy Gilmore has raised his point of order.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte A Cheann Comhairle, you have a responsibility—

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore A Cheann Comhairle, I have not raised my point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Sorry, Deputy, you have made your point and the Chair has ruled on it. You are challenging an order of this House this morning. I call Deputy Cuffe.

Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe On a point of order—

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison The Deputies are continuing to waste the remaining four minutes. I have called Deputy Cuffe on a point of order.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte A Cheann Comhairle, you have a responsibility—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Rabbitte, I ask you to resume your seat. Deputy Cuffe has been called on a point of order.

(Interruptions).[1427]

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputies should be allowed make their points of order. I call Deputy Cuffe on a point of order.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte A Cheann Comhairle—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy Rabbitte, I ask you to resume your seat.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte You have a responsibility—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Deputy, as I have said in this House previously, this is a national Parliament. It is not a créche. I ask you to resume your seat and allow Deputy Cuffe to make his point of order.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte What is the answer to Deputy Gilmore's point of order?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison It is a matter for the courts to decide on its constitutionality. I call Deputy Cuffe.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte This is not a court.

Mr. B. Lenihan: Information on Brian Joseph Lenihan Zoom on Brian Joseph Lenihan The Deputies squandered their time.

Mr. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan Zoom on Bernard Durkan On a point of order, the Leader of the Opposition wants to make a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I will hear Deputy Kenny after Deputy Cuffe.

Mr. C. Lenihan: Information on Conor Lenihan Zoom on Conor Lenihan There is no leader of the Opposition.

Mr. McCormack: Information on Pádraic McCormack Zoom on Pádraic McCormack This is a filibuster.

Mr. Gilmore: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore What is the time allocation?

Mr. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan Zoom on Bernard Durkan The leader of the Opposition—

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison As the Deputy is aware, only the courts can decide whether legislation is constitutional. I call Deputy Cuffe.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I ask Members to show respect for the Parliament and for their colleague, Deputy Cuffe.

Mr. Durkan: Information on Bernard Durkan Zoom on Bernard Durkan When will our party leader be called?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison The party leader will be called after Deputy Cuffe, that is if the House wants to allow any Member to make a point without interruption.

[1428]Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe I submitted several amendments to your office, a Cheann Comhairle, the first of which was ruled out of order. That amendment stated that the name of the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill should be changed to the planning and development sell-out Bill, 2002.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison That is not a point of order. I call Deputy Kenny.

Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe Can you explain the reason you ruled that amendment out of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison Allow Deputy Kenny make his point.

Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe A Cheann Comhairle, can you verify that it was ruled out of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison It was ruled out of order under long-standing rulings of the Chair.

Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe Which are?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison If the Deputy wishes to come to my office, I have no difficulty—

Mr. Cuffe: Information on Ciaran Cuffe Zoom on Ciaran Cuffe This is a sell-out Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison The Chair considered the issue very carefully when the amendment was put down, went back through the records and is quite satisfied that the Chair was in order. I call Deputy Kenny.

Mr. Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny Zoom on Enda Kenny It is obvious that this matter is one of serious concern to Members of this House. I appreciate that the Order of Business was voted through this morning but this guillotine motion has not been debated here. There has been no debate on these Stages of the Bill.

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg It has been bulldozed.

Mr. Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny Zoom on Enda Kenny Given that no debate has taken place on this section of the Bill, will the Chair allocate some time within the remaining sitting time of the Dáil to debate it?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison The Chair has no control over that matter.

Mr. J. Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins The Minister has control.

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg We can sit tomorrow and debate it.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Kenny: Information on Enda Kenny Zoom on Enda Kenny Will the Chair suspend the House for five minutes to allow the Whips to meet to discuss how debate on this can be facilitated?

[1429]An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison I am now going to put the question.

Mr. S. Ryan: Information on Seán Ryan Zoom on Seán Ryan This is illegal, the Bill has not been debated.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison As it is now 3 p.m. I am required to put the following question in accordance with the order of the Dáil of this day: “That in respect of each of the sections not disposed of the section is hereby agreed in Committee, the Title is hereby agreed in Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without [1430]amendment; Fourth Stage is hereby completed; and the Bill is hereby passed.”

Mr. Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg On a point of order, I move that we have votes by the traditional method. I am entitled to do so as I represent more than 20 Deputies and am a Whip, and, therefore, an official of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Séamus Pattison Zoom on Séamus Pattison We will take this vote in the traditional manner.

Question put.

Ahern, Michael.
Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.
Ardagh, Seán.
Aylward, Liam.
Brady, Johnny.
Brady, Martin.
Brennan, Séamus.
Browne, John.
Callanan, Joe.
Carey, Pat.
Carty, John.
Cassidy, Donie.
Collins, Michael.
Coughlan, Mary.
Cregan, John.
Cullen, Martin.
Curran, John.
Davern, Noel.
de Valera, Síle.
Dempsey, Noel.
Dempsey, Tony.
Dennehy, John.
Devins, Jimmy.
Ellis, John.
Fahey, Frank.
Finneran, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
Fleming, Seán.
Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
Glennon, Jim.
Grealish, Noel.
Hanafin, Mary.
Haughey, Seán.
Hoctor, Máire.
Jacob, Joe.
Keaveney, Cecilia.
Kelleher, Billy.
Kelly, Peter.
Killeen, Tony.
Kirk, Seamus.
Lenihan, Brian.
Lenihan, Conor.
McCreevy, Charlie.
McDaid, James.
McDowell, Michael.
McEllistrim, Thomas.
McGuinness, John.
Moloney, John.
Moynihan, Donal.
Moynihan, Michael.
Mulcahy, Michael.
Nolan, M. J.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Liz.
O'Donoghue, John.
O'Donovan, Denis.
O'Flynn, Noel.
O'Keeffe, Batt.
O'Keeffe, Ned.
O'Malley, Fiona.
Parlon, Tom.
Power, Seán.
Ryan, Eoin.
Sexton, Mae.
Smith, Brendan.
Smith, Michael.
Wallace, Dan.
Wallace, Mary.
Walsh, Joe.
Wilkinson, Ollie.
Woods, Michael.
Wright, G. V.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.
Boyle, Dan.
Breen, James.
Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P.
Bruton, Richard.
Burton, Joan.
Connaughton, Paul.
Costello, Joe.
Crawford, Seymour.
Crowe, Seán.
Cuffe, Ciarán.
Deasy, John.
Deenihan, Jimmy.
Durkan, Bernard J.
Enright, Olwyn.
Gilmore, Eamon.
Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.
Gregory, Tony.
Harkin, Marian.
Hayes, Tom.
Healy, Seamus.
Higgins, Joe.
Higgins, Michael D.
Hogan, Phil.
Howlin, Brendan.
Kehoe, Paul.
Kenny, Enda.
Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.
McGrath, Finian.
McGrath, Paul.McHugh, Paddy.[1431]

Níl–continued

McManus, Liz.
Mitchell, Olivia.
Morgan, Arthur.
Murphy, Gerard.
Naughten, Denis.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
O'Dowd, Fergus.
O'Keeffe, Jim.
O'Shea, Brian.
O'Sullivan, Jan.
Pattison, Seamus.
Penrose, Willie.
Perry, John.
[1432]Quinn, Ruairí.
Rabbitte, Pat.
Ring, Michael.
Ryan, Eamon.
Ryan, Seán.
Sargent, Trevor.
Sherlock, Joe.
Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.
Twomey, Liam.
Upton, Mary.
Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mr. Rabbitte: Information on Pat Rabbitte Zoom on Pat Rabbitte This represents a shameful abuse of power.


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