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 Header Item Order of Business (Continued)
 Header Item Arms Trade Treaty: Referral to Select Committee
 Header Item Business of Dáil

Thursday, 17 October 2013

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 817 No. 3

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Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin I would have presumed that during the debate we are having-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Would you please stop shouting down the speaker?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin We are having a debate here for 50 minutes, during which people will make suggestions. Clearly the Government has no intention of entertaining any suggestion-----

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg The Deputy had three years.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----from any Deputy. Keep quiet, Deputy Stagg, will you?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Would you please allow the Deputy-----

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin Deputy Stagg is the most orderly Whip I have ever come across. I ask the Tánaiste to withdraw the proposal, allow the debate to take place and see what we will do after that.

Deputy James Bannon: Information on James Bannon Zoom on James Bannon Has Deputy Martin washed out his ears after 14 years?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Please allow the Tánaiste to continue.

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore If Deputy Ó Snodaigh and Deputy Martin had read the Order Paper they would know that it is subject to the agreement of No. d7. I have heard the views of both Deputy Ó Snodaigh and Deputy Martin. I do not wish us to do anything here that presumes the outcome of the debate we are about to have. Therefore, I will remove this item from the Order Paper and it will be taken on Tuesday next, if the other motion is passed today.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Is that agreed? Agreed.

As time for the Order of Business has expired, we will deal with the next business.

Arms Trade Treaty: Referral to Select Committee

Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Eamon Gilmore): Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore I move:

That the proposal that Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the Arms Trade Treaty, done at New York on 3 June 2013, a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 10 October 2013, be referred to the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, in accordance with Standing Order 82A(3)(b), which, not later than 7 November 2013, shall send a message to the Dáil in the manner prescribed in Standing Order 87, and Standing Order 86(2) shall accordingly apply.

  Question put and agreed to.

Business of Dáil

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Before I commence the next item of business, I wish to correct the record of the House. Last evening, when I was not in the Chair, Deputy Gerry Adams made a statement which was totally inaccurate. He stated:

I just want to say Sinn Féin was denied its speaking slot this evening by a direct intervention by the Ceann Comhairle. I want to protest about this.

I did no such thing. I want the record corrected. I wish to point out to the House that we strictly adhered to the representation of the various groupings in the House. In case anyone is under any misunderstanding about this, there are now 69 Deputies in the Fine Gael Party who hold the whip, 34 Deputies in the Labour Party, 19 Deputies in Fianna Fáil, 13 Deputies in Sinn Féin, 14 Independents not aligned to the Technical Group, and 16 members of the Technical Group. There are actually 30 Members not aligned to political parties. Therefore, when I made a decision that Independent Deputies would have a right to speak in the House, the slots were allocated entirely proportionately. In fact, in the debate yesterday, Sinn Féin got three speaking slots and the non-aligned Independent Deputies got two slots.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly Fianna Fáil got four slots.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I want everybody to understand that this Chair acts totally independently and there is a tradition in this House that speaking slots are allocated proportionately and they will be continued to be so allocated. There is no such thing as an official list; it is purely as a matter of convenience that the Chair allows for a list to be compiled, but it is the duty of the Chair to ensure fair play and it is the duty of the Chair to call the next speaker in accordance with Standing Orders. I object to the questioning of my independence and the statement that I personally intervened to deny Sinn Féin a speaking slot.

I wish to move on to deal with the motion.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett We are not having a debate on this matter.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly Can I ask a question?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Excuse me, Deputy; please resume your seat. You are not entitled to any response. Please resume your seat, like everyone else.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams On a point of order-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I corrected the record of the House and that is all I am doing.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams I certainly have the right to put on the record what happened.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett No, Deputy. You are not entitled to put anything on the record because you were totally out of order. Please resume your seat.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams Where is the democracy in that?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I am moving to deal with the motion-----

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin Ceann Comhairle, with respect, you made an important statement which cannot be glossed over. For example, Deputy Ó Cuív thought he had a speaking slot last night-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I corrected the record of the House.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----but he had no opportunity. I respectfully suggest that we need to meet-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I have made my statement. Please resume your seat, Deputy Martin.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----because the budget debate has just ended and we do not know when it will be resumed. If we had a bit of cop-on and common sense everybody would get a decent opportunity to speak, Independents included. The Chair cannot arbitrarily-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I am on my feet, Deputy Martin.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin With respect, I will resume my seat, but you should allow people to talk-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett You are out of order. I ask the Tánaiste to move the motion.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly On a point of order-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett There is no point of order on a correction that I am making to the record of the House.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin If we were to have a discussion we could sort this out. The Government decides there is to be no more debate on the budget.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett The Deputy misunderstands what I said, which is that I am correcting an incorrect statement made in this House.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams I want to challenge that.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett That is all I am doing. I now call on the Tánaiste to move the motion.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly On a point of order-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett There is no point of order on a correction statement.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly Are you refusing to allow a Member of the House to raise a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Please resume your seats.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly Are you refusing to allow me to make a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Resume your seat and I will explain it to you. A motion will be put to the House. Prior to that, I am entitled, as Chair, to correct any inaccurate misinformation that was delivered to the House last night. That is what I did.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams That is a grievous charge.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly As a Member of the House, am I allowed to make a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett No, you are not, because there is no point of order on a statement to correct the record.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly Are you refusing?

The Tánaiste: Information on Eamon Gilmore Zoom on Eamon Gilmore I wish to move the motion-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Please resume your seats.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin Someone wants to make a point of order and he is entitled to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett On what?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin We need to hear what he says-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I do not need a lecture from you, Deputy Martin. Do you know the meaning of a point of order? Is it a point of order on a correction I made to the record of the House?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin I would like to hear what Deputy Donnelly wants to raise first and then the Chair can adjudicate.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett How is Deputy Donnelly involved in this matter? I am correcting the record of the House.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly If I may explain very quickly-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett It is not a point of order.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly It is relevant to what the Chair referenced. He said that Fianna Fáil had 19 seats, Sinn Féin 13 seats and the Technical Group 16 seats. With the greatest respect, the Ceann Comhairle also said that the time was allocated in proportion to the number of seats. Four speaking slots were allocated to Fianna Fáil, three to Sinn Féin and two to the Technical Group.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett That is in accordance with Standing Orders.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly My question on a point of order is how is the allocation-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett If the Deputy resumes his seat I will explain it. An order of the House, which I am obliged to follow, directed that spokespersons for the following are given time. Therefore, it does not come under the normal slot arrangements. Does the Deputy understand now?

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly: Information on Stephen Donnelly Zoom on Stephen Donnelly I accept that.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I ask the Tánaiste to move the motion.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams A Cheann Comhairle, you allowed a point of order from Deputy Donnelly. I wish to make a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett For what?

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams You said I misrepresented what had occurred.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Excuse me, Deputy. I read out the official record of the House.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams Am I to be denied?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett If you wish me to read it again I will do so. The Deputy said:

I just want to say Sinn Féin was denied its speaking slot this evening by a direct intervention by the Ceann Comhairle. I want to protest about this.

That is totally untrue, and that is what I am correcting.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams Am I not allowed to give you my-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett No, because I am correcting the record of the House.

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams I think the Ceann Comhairle is behaving in a totally improper way by not allowing me-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Was the Deputy behaving in a totally proper way when he made that statement without any evidence whatsoever?

Deputy Gerry Adams: Information on Gerry Adams Zoom on Gerry Adams Yes, I was.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett What is the evidence?


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