Houses of the Oireachtas

All parliamentary debates are now being published on our new website. The publication of debates on this website will cease in December 2018.

Go to oireachtas.ie

Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012: Committee Stage (Resumed) and Remaining Stages (Continued)

Tuesday, 18 December 2012

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 787 No. 3

First Page Previous Page Page of 96 Next Page Last Page

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan The Revenue is there to collect taxes. That is its job.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath They are doing a good job of it.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan They are being given the job now to collect this tax-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath And the sheriff as well.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan -----but there is also a commitment that it will be transferred back to the local authorities, and that is what will happen.

  Deputy Bannon, in a good speech, one of the better speeches tonight-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty Zoom on Pearse Doherty Deputy Bannon did not read the legislation. The Minister will be aware that the Deputy has not read the legislation.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae: Information on Michael Healy-Rae Zoom on Michael Healy-Rae The Minister of State for mansions.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan -----spoke about having an easy payments system. In the Bill, there is an easy payments system.

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty Zoom on Pearse Doherty Is that the better speech?

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins The Minister is embarrassing Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan Owners, depending on the way they are paid, can pay by deduction at source. If they are paid weekly, fortnightly or monthly, whatever way they are paid, they can have deductions made accordingly.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins Presumably, from their wages.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan They can pay by direct debit. There are a number of ways of paying during the year.

  It should be borne in mind that a total bill of €200, which is on the higher end of the scale, is €4 a week. Deputy Stanley spoke of houses that his neighbours bought for €250,000 and that are worth €60,000. If they are worth €60,000, they pay not on what they paid for them but on what is their value.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath Who values them?

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan The tax is paid on the value. Deputy Healy-Rae implied the same thing. The tax is not on what one paid for the house. The tax is on the value of the house as will be assessed in the late spring, in March or April.

Deputy Catherine Murphy: Information on Catherine Murphy Zoom on Catherine Murphy One does not own it.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan If we take Deputy Stanley's example of where the house is worth €60,000, the charge will be the minimum charge of €90.

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty Zoom on Pearse Doherty On a liability of €200,000, that is what the Minister fails to understand.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Would Deputy Pearse Doherty mind? I will let him in again in an orderly fashion.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan The tax will be on the €60,000 valuation-----

Deputy Pearse Doherty: Information on Pearse Doherty Zoom on Pearse Doherty It is on the average asset, which is the liability.

Deputy Michael McGrath: Information on Michael McGrath Zoom on Michael McGrath Irrespective of one's mortgage. That is the point.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan -----and it will be €90.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath On top of one's mortgage.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan That is €10 less than that person's liability this year when there was a flat rate of €100 charged. There is a relationship between value and what will be charged on this occasion.

  In general terms, those on higher incomes have higher-value properties. It flies in the face of reason to pretend that those on higher incomes do not have higher-value properties. The higher the value of the property, the more that one will pay.

  Deputy Ross spoke on Second Stage about the deferral system and the 4% simple interest rate. He stated this would force people to sell their homes.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath How would they pay?

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan We all agree with hyperbole as a good way of making a point on some occasions, but this is blatant exaggeration. The rate of tax is 0.18%. Even a deferral for 20 years would result in an outstanding charge of not more than 3.6% to 4% of the house value and that will not drive anyone out of his or her home.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath Add them all up.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan Exaggerated positions have been taken up.

  I stated already that we will deal with the pyrite issue in the finance Bill. We will construct it so that those concerned do not have to pay anything. The situation regarding Priory Hall was mentioned. I regret I do not recall which Deputy referred to the issue.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett I did.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan Priory Hall is an unfinished estate and in the exceptions for unfinished estates, there will be no charge on Priory Hall. Priory Hall was exempt from the flat-rate tax and it will be exempt from this tax. There will be no charge in that case.

  Owners will have the liability to pay and the tenants of private sector landlords may bear some of the costs if landlords pass it on. On the other hand, they may not. This will be a market issue. They will be in the same position as tenants elsewhere.

  This is not simply a family-home tax. All houses owned by an individual, including holiday homes and rented property, will be subject to the charge.

  Deputy Grealish mentioned somebody with 30 houses who was not paying. That is why we are bringing in the Revenue. That person will pay this year and next year because the Revenue will collect it.

Deputy Noel Grealish: Information on Noel Grealish Zoom on Noel Grealish These operators are getting away from the Revenue as well.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan We will-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath The heavy gang is back.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae: Information on Michael Healy-Rae Zoom on Michael Healy-Rae The Minister will get them.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath The heavy gang is back. Former Minister for Justice, Mr. Paddy Cooney, is back.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett One should not mention names.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath Sorry.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan This is the old tradition of a colony, that one will not obey the state because it is not our state. We have been running our own affairs since 1922.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett I thought we were told the troika was ruling.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan It is about time Deputy Mattie McGrath backed the Revenue-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath I have backed them all my life.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan -----and, as a public representative, stated that the Revenue should collect the taxes.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath I paid them too.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan It is about time Deputy Mattie McGrath stated that people should pay their taxes.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath I do not want the sheriff going near their doors. Will the Minister send the sheriff in as well?

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan One is not dealing with a foreign power anymore.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath One would nearly think it.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan One is dealing with our own Government since 1922.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins One is dealing with the dictatorship of the financial markets.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan Deputy Mattie McGrath spoke of the pike in the thatch, fellows setting fire to the thatch and all of that old grá mo chroí rhetoric.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath The Minister is a waffler.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett The troika has slipped the Minister's memory.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath It is not grá mo chroí rhetoric; it is factual.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan Deputy Mattie McGrath must be looking at black and white movies when he is selling all of that kind of stuff.

Deputy Mattie McGrath: Information on Mattie McGrath Zoom on Mattie McGrath I am not. The Minister would not want to be moving with the crowd behind him. He has not many of them.

Deputy Michael Noonan: Information on Michael Noonan Zoom on Michael Noonan They are all right. They are quite safe.

  I do not want to be taking up good debating time.


Last Updated: 06/05/2020 12:01:05 First Page Previous Page Page of 96 Next Page Last Page