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 Header Item Financial Resolution No. 14: Capital Acquisitions Tax (Continued)
 Header Item Financial Resolution No. 15: General

Wednesday, 5 December 2012

Dáil Éireann Debate
Vol. 785 No. 2

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Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg That is not the motion before the House.

Deputy Michael McCarthy: Information on Michael McCarthy Zoom on Michael McCarthy A Cheann Comhairle, €3 trillion. Come on.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins That is the sickness of the financial markets system the Government is attempting to bail out.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I will not ask the Deputy a second time. Please stick to the financial resolutions. There are three other speakers.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins Of course we can support the capital gains tax increases, but they are minuscule. They are puny and pathetic, compared with what would be introduced if we had a Labour Party or a socialist party in a majority in the Dáil or as a significant Opposition. The Government would not dream of coming to the House with such rubbish to pretend to be doing something radical-----

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Information on Thomas P. Broughan Zoom on Thomas P. Broughan Hear, hear.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins -----when the whole thrust of the budget is to continue the disastrous austerity policy and bail out the bankers and speculators at the cost of working class people.

Deputy Michael McCarthy: Information on Michael McCarthy Zoom on Michael McCarthy Bail out Deputy Clare Daly.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe It is clear in the debate what the approach of the Opposition will be. In fairness, it is consistent in its approach. What we have seen repeatedly in the pre-budget submissions they have made is that Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and their colleagues behind them come to the House year-round and oppose measure after measure taken by the Government. When it comes to them putting together their own pre-budget submissions, however, they accept every single one of the Government's measures and bag all of the savings it has made. We saw that with Fianna Fáil.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett We did not. We proposed to reverse the cuts.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe Fianna Fáil opposed the new household tax that is being introduced but in its pre-budget submission it accepted a flat €100 rate.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett We costed the reversal.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Please.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe Last year, Sinn Féin opposed the increase in VAT but it kept it in place in its pre-budget submission. Last year Sinn Féin said it would abolish the universal social charge. Where does that stand in its pre-budget submission?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett: Information on Richard Boyd Barrett Zoom on Richard Boyd Barrett It is in ours.

Deputy Dessie Ellis: Information on Dessie Ellis Zoom on Dessie Ellis We are dealing with the present.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe Zoom on Paul Kehoe We are trying to clean up the mess.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe Where is any of that? Sinn Féin came into the Dáil and said before its voters-----

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn My goodness. That is cynical.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe A Cheann Comhairle, this is the problem-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Deputy Donohoe should please speak through the Chair.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe I am speaking through the Chair. That is the problem with Sinn Féin.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn Deputy Donohoe is a happy man tonight. Fine Gael got its way. He should just enjoy his victory.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett If the Deputy addresses the Chair, it will cut out the aggro.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe I am addressing you, a Cheann Comhairle. I am just making a comment about Sinn Féin, which is that it is well able to dole it out but it is not able to accept anything in return. This is the party that came into the House and said it would abolish the universal social charge.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn Here we go again.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe It said it had found €3 billion to do that-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I ask Members to be quiet, please.

Deputy Dessie Ellis: Information on Dessie Ellis Zoom on Dessie Ellis We did not have the numbers. Does Deputy Donohoe not know that?

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe -----but it has not found a single way of doing it. Unfortunately, what we have seen happen is that Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin are seeking to merge into one. Both are saying the same thing.

Deputy Brian Stanley: Information on Brian Stanley Zoom on Brian Stanley I have a feeling Deputy Donohoe’s party is closer to Fianna Fáil.

Deputy Sean Fleming: Information on Seán Fleming Zoom on Seán Fleming Dream on.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe They are trying to create the idea that someone else can pay the price for the terrible mess Fianna Fáil created and the other party on the Opposition is complicit in maintaining.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn Come on. What a speech.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe It is very relevant to the motion. If I am allowed to finish, what we have in front of us are a number of measures relating to capital gains tax, capital acquisition tax and other measures-----

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn On a point of order, could Deputy Donohoe speak to the motion, please?

Deputy Paschal Donohoe: Information on Paschal Donohoe Zoom on Paschal Donohoe ----which make a contribution to ensuring people who have wealth, which they have earned, will be taxed fairly and at a higher rate than was the case in the past. The parties on the Opposition side of the House talk repeatedly about the need to tax more. A measure is being put in place that will allow us to do that. It will ensure people who have a degree of wealth will be taxed fairly on it.

In commenting on the measures, I ask for a small degree of consistency in the contributions of the parties. In their pre-budget submissions they sought to maintain all the measures they attacked last year. They seem to ignore the fact that the standard rates of income tax, tax bands and tax credits are being maintained. Many of the social welfare payments on which people depend week after week are also being maintained. All of the measures are being put in place and other hard choices are being made to allow these things to happen. The financial resolutions that have been moved are part of that approach.

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty I am pleased to contribute to the debate. I had not intended to, but the first thing to say-----

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin A Cheann Comhairle, I had signalled before Deputy Nulty.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett No. Deputy Nulty was on the list before Deputy Martin. Deputy Martin was not on the list.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin I was but I could not get the Chair's attention.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett I put Deputy Martin on the list. If we can get on with the debate, I will call Deputy Martin.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg How much time is left?

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty I was not present for the start of the debate because I heard the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, on the “Prime Time” programme suggest that parents do not spend the back-to-school allowance on their children, that they use it for other things.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Will the Deputy please stick to the financial resolutions?

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty I am speaking to them. Other people have spoken and you should allow me to speak, a Cheann Comhairle.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn Consistency, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Would you ever mind your own business, please?

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty Allow me to speak.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Information on Pádraig MacLochlainn Zoom on Pádraig MacLochlainn I have a right to challenge decisions.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe Zoom on Paul Kehoe Mind your own business.

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty I support many of the measures in this package of proposals. They are taxes on wealth and they are most welcome, but they have not gone far enough. The reason that is the case is because we have a Government where the Minister for Finance, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health are from one particular party, the Fine Gael Party, which has objected and upheld and prevented progressive proposals being brought forward.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Thank you, Deputy Nulty.

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty I am a member of the Labour Party but part of our tradition in the labour movement is to dissent.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett We are not having a general discussion.

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty Now is the time to dissent, speak out and stand up for working people when there is an attack-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett The Deputy can speak on that tomorrow in the general debate.

Deputy Patrick Nulty: Information on Patrick Nulty Zoom on Patrick Nulty ----- on our living conditions from Fianna Fáil and now from Fine Gael.

Deputies: Hear, hear.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin We are supportive of these resolutions in so far as they go, but they do not go far enough in terms of redressing the imbalance at the heart of this budget.

Deputy Joe Higgins: Information on Joe Higgins Zoom on Joe Higgins Does Deputy Martin want more tax on the rich?

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe Zoom on Paul Kehoe Yawn.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin I have witnessed this evening a degree of intolerance and bitterness in the contributions from Labour Party Members towards their former members, which I have not heard previously in this House.

Deputy Eric Byrne: Information on Eric J. Byrne Zoom on Eric J. Byrne There is no former member present.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin Members have left our party-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Sorry, Deputy. I would appreciate it if you would just make your contribution.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----but we always allowed them the right to speak in this Chamber, and it should be a cherished right.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe Zoom on Paul Kehoe Speak to the motion.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin The degree of attack on Deputy Broughan by the Labour Whip as I entered the Chamber was unacceptable and at a low level.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Perhaps Deputy Martin might speak to the financial resolution.

Deputy Michael McCarthy: Information on Michael McCarthy Zoom on Michael McCarthy That is not on the motion.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg Was Deputy Martin not in the House during Haughey's time?

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: Information on Ruairí Quinn Zoom on Ruairí Quinn So, Jim Gibbons was never beaten up by Fianna Fáil activists in the corridor.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin In terms of the imbalance at the heart of this budget-----

Deputy Jerry Buttimer: Information on Jerry Buttimer Zoom on Jerry Buttimer Did Dessie O'Malley not leave Fianna Fáil?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----workers on €25,000 will witness from today a 36% increase in their PRSI-----

Deputy Eric Byrne: Information on Eric J. Byrne Zoom on Eric J. Byrne I would like to see you guys running the country.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----whereas a worker on €175,000 will witness a mere increase of 3.9% on their PRSI.

Deputy Eric Byrne: Information on Eric J. Byrne Zoom on Eric J. Byrne Fianna Fáil bankrupted the country. Deputy Martin ought to be ashamed of himself.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin That is the imbalance at the heart of this budget.

Deputy Paul Kehoe: Information on Paul Kehoe Zoom on Paul Kehoe Does Fianna Fáil promise to reverse the cuts?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin I respectfully suggest that is the problem for many members of the Labour Party. Regarding the two meanest cuts, I appeal to the Government to re-examine the respite grant-----

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Please, Deputy. We are on-----

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin -----because there was no need to cut that, and also the clothing allowance.

Deputy Arthur Spring: Information on Arthur Spring Zoom on Arthur Spring Deputy Martin did not want to be in government. It is unbelievable.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin Regarding the resolutions before us, I will not act in a patronising manner, as Deputy Donohoe has just done. No one needs lectures from him because Fine Gael and the Labour Party opposed every single measure in the past four years and promptly adopted all of them once they went into Government after the general election.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Information on Emmet Stagg Zoom on Emmet Stagg That is when Fianna Fáil had wrecked the country.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin They reversed many of the commitments they made.

Deputy Michael McCarthy: Information on Michael McCarthy Zoom on Michael McCarthy Fianna Fáil took a fiver off the blind pension.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin One of the Ministers present stood on the steps of Trinity College and made a solemn promise to the students of Ireland that he would reverse student charges, not increase them. He broke that solemn commitment as soon as he came to power.

Deputy Gerald Nash: Information on Gerald Nash Zoom on Gerald Nash Three hundred per cent.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin In many ways these resolutions are progressive and we support them but they do not redress the wider imbalance in the budget proper. I am reminded of one of the sayings from the great leader, Seán Lemass, namely, that there was only one Labour Party in Ireland and that happened to be Fianna Fáil.

(Interruptions).

A Deputy: And Bertie wore Joe Higgins's clothes.

Deputy Arthur Spring: Information on Arthur Spring Zoom on Arthur Spring Is it now three?

Deputy Micheál Martin: Information on Micheál Martin Zoom on Micheál Martin It is not over there.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seán Barrett Zoom on Seán Barrett Would Members have some respect for the Chamber? We are still in session. As it is now 10.50 p.m. I am required to put the following question: "That Financial Resolutions Nos. 10 to 14, inclusive, be agreed to."

  Question put and declared carried.

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Ruairí Quinn): Information on Ruairí Quinn Zoom on Ruairí Quinn I move the following Financial Resolution:

Financial Resolution No. 15: General

THAT it is expedient to amend the law relating to inland revenue (including value-added tax and excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.

Debate adjourned.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.

  The Dáil adjourned at 10.50 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 6 December 2012.


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