|
Deputy Gerry Adams:   Even on the cusp of taking a further €3.5 billion out of the economy, would the Taoiseach not concede that austerity is not working?
An Ceann Comhairle: Thank you.
Deputy Gerry Adams: Second, will the Taoiseach not state straight out the Government did not equality-proof this budget? The Taoiseach is in a position to state that in so far as it could, the Government either equality proofed it or did not.
The Taoiseach: Deputy Adams comes in here every day and makes the same argument.
Deputy Robert Dowds: Actually, he misses a lot of debates.
The Taoiseach: There has been a long tradition here in the country that in the run-in to budgets, all parties are entitled to submit their claims for alternative budgets to the Department of Finance to be assessed and valued independently. Deputy Adams's party did not bother to do that.
Deputy Gerry Adams: Yes, we did.
Deputies: No, they did not.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I cannot believe the Taoiseach pulled that one.
The Taoiseach: Consequently, it ill behoves Deputy Adams-----
Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: We sought views from all the Departments.
Deputy Peadar Tóibín: It is a facts-free Taoiseach.
An Ceann Comhairle: Settle down please.
The Taoiseach: It ill behoves Deputy Adams to come to this Chamber and castigate the Labour Party or anyone else.
Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: What about the Taoiseach's backbenchers? There are a few right-wingers there.
The Taoiseach: While Sinn Féin can have its rows with Fianna Fáil if it wishes, the test for Deputy Adams and his party was why they did not submit their alternative budgetary propositions to the Department to have them costed independently.
Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: We did.
Deputy Emmet Stagg: Amateurs.
(Interruptions).
An Ceann Comhairle: No one can hear anything. I ask Deputies to stop shouting.
A Deputy: Lads, this is senior hurling.
Deputy Finian McGrath: Did the Department get the Technical Group submission?
The Taoiseach: Deputy Adams should be clear about the following point. Members should see all those young people in the Visitors Gallery. When those young people grow up and become adults in this country, the Government seeks to have achieved a situation in which Ireland's economic good health has been restored, where there is an engine to drive the economy efficiently and competently-----
Deputy Peadar Tóibín: Earth to Taoiseach.
The Taoiseach: ----- and that we never again will have a situation in which the Government runs riot with the people's money. The Government seeks to have restored that good health to the economy in order that investment can be attracted and jobs can result. This is what is important in this regard.
Deputy Peadar Tóibín: Reality is important.
The Taoiseach: The Government seeks to protect those front-line services and those who are vulnerable in as fair a way as it can.
Deputy Gerry Adams: The Government is not doing that.
The Taoiseach: This is the reason that if, for example, Deputy Adams has decided there is an alternative to a property tax, it means one loads on income taxes, as well as taxes on work, and that will not help in a scenario in which one must develop one's economy. In the vast majority of cases, the moneys that will come in from that tax will be retained by local authorities for services for local people.
Deputy Peadar Tóibín: The Government reduced the local government grant.
The Taoiseach: Local people wish to see good competent government delivering in their interests.
An Ceann Comhairle: Thank you.
The Taoiseach: The next time, Sinn Féin should send its proposals over to the Department of Finance-----
Deputy Gerry Adams: We always do.
The Taoiseach: ----- to have them costed and then Deputy Adams will see how daft they are.
Deputy Dinny McGinley: The Taoiseach should not worry. They have had their figures checked by the quartermaster. They even had them checked in sterling.
(Interruptions).
Deputy Finian McGrath: The Ceann Comhairle should throw out the Minister of State, Deputy McGinley.
Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I see Deputy McGinley is getting uptight.
An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Ross. Could we all settle down for a while and give Deputy Ross a chance?
Deputy Finian McGrath: Hear, hear.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: Are Members being charged for this?
Deputy Shane Ross: I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I think Deputy Adams would be best served in sending his budget submission to Brussels or Berlin instead of sending it to Merrion Street.
Deputy Brian Stanley: It is Labour's way.
Deputy Shane Ross: Today, middle Ireland is waking up with a feeling of foreboding. It is well aware that a draconian budget has been written elsewhere. Property owners, pensioners and people with mortgages they cannot pay are converting their anger into fear. This fear is not simply of what the Government is doing to them but of what is happening in Brussels and Berlin. They fear the property tax and they fear child benefit being cut.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: They fear big Phil.
Deputy Shane Ross: Moreover, they fear that those who have been victims of the banks will now become victims of the Governments whose banks have imposed this austerity upon them. Members can discuss the property tax, because it has been announced by the Government many times. The blow of that tax is not softened by the leaks coming from the Government benches. In particular, I refer to the kind of obfuscation when Members are presented with the fact that there will be a mansion tax. That does not soften the blow-----
Deputy Emmet Stagg: I did not think Deputy Ross would like that.
Deputy Shane Ross: ----- for those people who will be obliged to pay large sums on small properties as a result of property tax. What the Government has succeeded in doing is highly dangerous. By allowing European and foreign forces to write this budget, it is creating an unlikely coalition of the unwilling and those who are unable to pay in Ireland today.
An Ceann Comhairle: Thank you Deputy.
Deputy Shane Ross: Moreover, the blow is not softened by the fact-----
Deputy Arthur Spring: This is a speech. Where is the question?
Deputy Shane Ross: It is not softened by the fact that in view of the fact-----
Deputy Emmet Stagg: Can the Deputy think of a question?
An Ceann Comhairle: If Deputies do not mind, I will look after the chairing of the session. When Deputy Ross is ready, he should put the question please.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: He is an angry man.
Deputy Shane Ross: In view of the fact that last Monday, the Government and the French and German Finance Ministers closed the door-----
An Ceann Comhairle: Thank you Deputy.
Deputy Shane Ross: ----- to any Greek deal for Ireland, would the Taoiseach consider taking the fight about this budget to Brussels, to Berlin and to Paris? Would he consider getting a bank deal first and producing a budget second?
Deputy Mattie McGrath: Hear, hear.
The Taoiseach: The answer to that question is "No". I thought Deputy Ross was one of the four angry men going around the country.
Deputy Patrick O'Donovan: That is how he lost his voice.
The Taoiseach: I am not sure how well the show was going-----
Deputy Finian McGrath: They got a full house and were sold out wherever they went.
An Ceann Comhairle: Sorry, Deputies.
The Taoiseach: I wish him the best of luck with it. The Deputy is well aware that the position of Greece is very different to that of this country. We have a particular request, which is what I referred to when replying to Deputy Adams.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: The Taoiseach should demand, not ask.
The Taoiseach: The Government is in discussion and negotiations with the European Central Back about the question of the promissory notes. As has been outlined by the Minister for Finance, the next payment is due in March 2013 and the Government does not wish to be obliged to pay that. At the other end of this issue, I note the European finance Ministers yesterday did not reach agreement on putting in place the legal framework for the banking union and its supervisory capacity and that a further meeting has been scheduled for next week. Deputy Ross is well aware that one cannot have these discussions unless one has a legal framework in which they take place. I hope this can be achieved before the end of the year at the meeting to be held next week. As I outlined yesterday, the Greek situation is different than that of Ireland. We will exit our programme in 2013 and the Government is in discussions with the troika about what might be appropriate in respect of the nature of that exit. Greece will still be attempting to get its debt-to-GDP ratio down to 124% by 2024, whereas Ireland will exit its programme next year. In itself, this will add an attractiveness to this country as a location for continued investment and job creation. However, what the Government would regard as being fundamentally helpful to Ireland, and what it is in discussions on and pursuing with the European Central Bank, as well as at European Council level, is the question of sustainability arising from the bank debts that were put on the backs of the taxpayers. The Government continues to deal with that in a serious manner.
Deputy Shane Ross: The point I was trying to make is that middle Ireland now sees that on one side are the Government, the Department of Finance and others in positions of great power here, allied with Mrs. Merkel and other powerful European nations and European banks, while on the other side are the people of Ireland, who will be obliged to suffer this austerity budget today. I acknowledge the sums will add up at the end of the day but people are not going to be able to pay some of the taxes the Government intends to impose. A new situation is being entered into, in that the property tax will not be paid by some people because they will not be able to pay it. There are people with mortgages who cannot pay their mortgages and they will not be able to pay an additional tax on the debts they already owe.
Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor: What is the Deputy's suggestion?
Deputy Shane Ross: What will the Taoiseach do? There has already been a strike in respect of the household charge. What will the Government do if the people decide this is a bridge too far-----
Deputy Mattie McGrath: Bring in the sheriff.
Deputy Shane Ross: ----- and that they will resist the taxes - through poverty and not through unwillingness - as a result of what the Government has done and what it intends to do today?
|
Page
of 72
